VBAC SUPPORT

Sma, i'm so sorry to hear about your first pregnancy, lets hope this time you will be able to get a natural birth. regarding the gynae, we have an appointment next saturday so hopefully we'll be able to find out how pro-natural she is. at my last appointment she asked me what i wanted and i said i don't know yet. We discussed the oxygen deprivation as this is my major concern after the pain of course and she told me that baby and mom are monitored right through the birth, so i hope that this was a good indication that she's willing to do natural birth. Although she did say that if i'm scared because of the distance i have to travel once in labour, she'll be willing to induce after 39 weeks. So i really hope she doesn't change her mind when i'm with a man and that he doesn't get there and take over!

Widget, before i fell pregnant I always said i would rather be cut than go through the pain or risk my Veejay tearing. I'm still scare of that but i'm hoping i'll be able to prepare myself and my body for any eventualities. I really hope my gynae is on board, i'd hate to have to change her now especially since we can see her on weekends which is perfect for us.

I'll make a decision after we've seen the gynae next week and go from there. I read Anthea's story and it was so inspiring at least i feel inspired that other women have done it.

has anyone worried about down there after the birth? I mean, does everything go back to normal or is it a bit looser

Zee, don't be worried about ob/gyn's, just ask a lot of questions and read up so you know and don't just accept their word as law or the only way. They definitely do play an important role and you need them should there be any complications during your pregnancy. Remeber you could have a premature baby and midwifes don't assist with that, that is why you need a back-up gynea should you go that route.
It all depends on your situation and you also never know how labour will progress or what will happen. Cesarean is by no means an easier option, not elective or emergency, but I do believe that they have their place as an emergency intervention. That is also why they have this bad reputation of having a higher mortality rate - because that is what they do - attempt to save lives and it is not always successful.

There are plenty of risks to natural birth as well, I was just blissfully unaware of all of them when I was pregnant the first time, but I also never even considered c-section an option so I didn't read up or care to be informed about them either.

I have a friend who knew right from the start that she never wanted to birth vaginally. The idea of having natural labour petrified her, just as going back on the operating table petrifies me! She requested cesarean right from the start and has not regretted it one second. She has a beautiful healthy baby girl, she breastfed wonderfully and no complications whatsoever, so it is all about what is right for you.

Good luck and enjoy your pregnancy! It is such a beautiful and exciting time!

Add on Just as an afterthought I am yet to hear though of a gynea in south africa who will actually encourage a mom to have natural instead of cesarean should she request it, and encouraging or suggesting TOLAC is even more unheard of.

Hey Zee

There are good gynaes out there.....somewhere....you must just look very thoroughly... I had to run though cos I'm restricted to Netcare gynaes and most are like toootally c-section masters.

But, be careful still with whoever you end up with.... Some gynaes are aware that ladies are now going back to how things should have always been, so they will agree to natural birth, then bam at 38 weeks, especially if your husband is there, there are all these new issues...most common being the baby is big warawara.... So know your story or you could be played. Another trick, that was performed on me....I went into labour naturally at home, panicking husband made me call the Dr too early, he said get to the hospital now!! Got there, laboured the whole day even without pain meds, then suddenly at pushing stage, pushed like 4 times and suddenly told to stop. Was tired and hungry, no energy to debate, they know this and take advantage of it somehow. Almost suffocated my son squeezing him in while nature proceeded as they were getting ready for theatre, they basically fetched him from my vajay. So just watch out for these tricks, hopefully you'll find an honest gynae who does what he says and says what he does...before doing it!!!

You ladies are simply wonderful! And now i feel so ashamed for wanting to opt for the 'easier' option *** Hides***

Rakker u made me laugh! I'll PM you my email address for that book. Thanks for sharing both stories, it makes me realize how Gynaes can manipulate things to suit them instead of the mother. they are so lucky in the UK.

Hasie, Thank you so much for the info, i'll print it so i can refer to it for the debate that i'll be having at home hope you don't mind. I'll love to have all the support during the birth but i might have to choose only one or 2. We would probably join the 02nd group of your classes as it will be closer to the birth by then. i'll PM you for details.

Widget, thanks for your story. please let me know how it goes with the doctor, hopefully he can give you good news about the birth. I'm now getting scared of gynaes, seems like they want the easy way out when it comes to the birth.

Widget, try getting hold of midwife Louette McCullum, she has birthing privileges at Fourways Life. I will try to find her number for you. She was the midwife at one of the mommies who did my course's birth.

Also check Nicolette Barkhuizen, she does consult from Genesis but also from her house and I'm not sure, but I think she's in the northern suburbs.
www.yourbirth.co.za

Good luck!!!

Thank you for all the support everyone.

Zee welcome! Hope you find answers here to your questions, but only you will know what is right for you and your family, as long as you make an informed decision. In hindsight I blindly trusted my doctor with my first baby, which is why I think I struggle so much to come to terms with my c-section, because I now know things could have been so very different...

Futhermore, I had good talk with Dad last night explaining how I feel and what upsets me and how I feel I am now being forced into a decision that I am not comfortable with. He suggested I phone the doctor to see if I can go talk to him about all my concerns as well as get someone else to talk to for a second opinion.

I contacted Henny from Growth-spurt but she can only consult in the the mornings and I cannot take time off from work in the mornings since I only work half day. We are simply too busy this time of the year. She is also too far away. I had a look at where Genesis is to see if any of the midwifes consult from there, but Genesis is also too far away.

I phoned the doctors office and he couldn't see me before my next appointment which is on the 18th of December, but the receptionist assured me that I must not worry about time with this appointment and I can talk to him for as long as I want and ask all my questions.

Does anyone know of another gyneacologist in the Sunninghill area that I can consult for a second opinion?

Interresting though, someone mentioned that they were with Peter Koll and referred to him as being very pro-natural. I know of 5 people (all friends and family) that are with Dr Koll and everyone says he is a very good gynea but renowned for c-sections and he told my sister in law that VBAC is too dangerous. When she rushed into the hospital with her second child after having gone into labour spontaneously she was already 4cm's dilated and progressing quickly. Her husband hardly had time to make it to the hospital, the doctor just said that we are having a c-section right now. I thought she was the perfect candidate for VBAC....but again every labour and situation is different and I never know if you really know the full story.

Hi Zee, welcome to this thread!

You are one of the few lucky people who are already at a great hospital with a "low-ish" c-section rate.

Natural birth is definitly safer than c-section. You should bring your hubby to come and visit me...

As for your questions:

1. What are the dangers associated with a natural V birth?
According to our HypnoBirthing statistics, 95% of women can have a COMFORTABLE natural birth without any complications. Chances for complications are very very small. Complications that can occur include:
shoulder dystocia (shoulder being to big, getting stuck and hurting a nerve) this happens in less than 3% of cases where CPD (big baby) is suspected and of those 3% most heal on their own without any medical help, only about 2% of the 3% (so in truth that would be 0.0006%) of babies with suspected CPD is permanently injured.
Placenta getting left behind. Now I don't have stats on this one on hand, but I can promise you it would be less than 1% because its very very very rare...
Fetal distress, this will cause you to have an emergency c-section. In HypnoBirhting we teach our moms how fetal distress is caused and what one can do to help prevent it. Usually our moms don't have a problem with this because they are so relaxed during birth.
There are other things that could go wrong, but very few and most are connected to medical interventions (like inductions) raising the risk for certain things.

2. What are the chances that the oxygen supply to the baby will not be interrupted and result in long term disability
If baby's chord is left to stop pulsating by itself before clamping, the chances for any oxygen deprivation is very close to 0. Your chances of oxygen deprivation is higher with a c-section because the chord is clamped immediately. If there is oxygen deprivation for some reason, the chances of that causing a life long injury is also small as both midwifes and doctors have ressus material on hand and will immediately help baby if there is a problem.

3. What are the dangers to me as a mother?
With a natural birth? Very few dangers. You could tear, again in HypnoBirthing your chances of tearing is less because we don't push and we teach you proper birthing positions. Other than that, your placenta can remain inside, see the answer to nr1 above. There isn't very much that can happen to mom with natural.
But with a c-section, you can lose a lot of blood, chances of you needing an emergency hysterectomy is much higer than with natural birth. Chances of blood clots through your lungs / heart / brain post op is the same as after another big operation, this can kill you.
In general the chances of the MOM dying with a c-section is 3 times higher than with a natural birth. This can be due to many complications some of them related to any surgery...

4. Which has a more mortality rate, Natural or C- section?
Both for mom and for baby c-section has higher mortality rates than natural birth. Still, birth is safe, and complications happens to very few people.

5. Is there a way of making natural child birth as clean and easy as possible?
Clean? Waterbirth is the ultimate, but birth is not that dirty, much more blood with a c-sec and baby will be covered in blood after a c-sec as well where with a natural birth, baby comes out kind of clean. But if you are worried about mess, I would say opt for a waterbirth with the midwives-exclusive unit, they used to practise out of the stork's nest at Femina, they are now in a birth house in Rietondale but still have birthing privileges at Femina.
In terms of making it easier. Well, here I go again, pimping my own course. HypnoBirting makes it a lot easier. You are welcome to read my birth story. I had a natural birth in a hospital (next one will be at home!!!) and did not NEED any pain meds. Both the labour and the birth was easy. The only pain I felt was when my old school doctor forced me on my back, pushed my knees against my jaw and forced me to forcefully push my baby out. That hurt. But honestly, it took 4 mins. The whole birth from first sign of the start of labour to birth was 6 hours, so 4 mins of pain is alright hey??

6. Which is important, Hyponobirthing, a Doula, Midwife and antenatal classes?
All of the above. HypnoBirthing IS antenatal classes, so if you do that you don't need the other classes.
Midwife I would say is very important. They are experts on natural labour. They monitor you (by physically being there!) the whole labour, not just the last 5 mins like a gyni. So personally I consider it safer.
Doula is important because you need that emotional, maternal support, especially if your hubby is not sure. He will need support as well.

I hope that helps. Please feel free to contact me for more info. I have worked with the femina midwifes often and I know them.

And regarding HypnoBirthing classes, these are my group dates (Pretoria) for 2013:

Group 1: 10, 17, 24, 31 Jan, 7 Feb

Group 2: 21, 28 Feb, 7, 14, 21 Mrch

Group 3: 4, 11, 18, 25 Apr, 2 May

You are welcome to mail me for booking details. Private courses can be arranged at times that suit you. anina@beautifullyborn.co.za